DEATH MUST DIE

Chapter 26 - Words of Wisdom

by kind permission of the Editor, Ram Alexander

published by Indica Books, Varanasi

 

 

 

Varanasi, 10th October, 1957

 

An Irish journalist, Mr. Fennell, and a research student at the Benares Hindu University from Malabar (South India), Mr. Panikkar[1] came for an interview.

Panikkar: When there is only ONE why are there so many different religions in the world? What have you to say about those who insist that only one religion is the right one?

Ma: Because He is infinite, there is an infinite variety of concep­tions of Him, an infinite variety of paths to Him. He is everything, every kind of belief and also the disbelief of the atheist. The belief in non belief is also a belief. It implies that you admit belief when you disbelieve. He is in all forms and in the formless.

Panikkar: From what you have said I gather that you con­sider the formless (Nirguna) to be nearer to Truth than God with form (Saguna)?

Ma: Is ice anything but water? Saguna is as much He as Nirguna. To say that there is only One Atma and all forms are illusion would imply that the formless was nearer to Truth than form. But I say every form and also the formless are He and He alone.

 

1st February, 1960, Kumbha Mela

 

Question: Is it right to eat meat?

Ma: You should eat according to what is helpful in your sadhana and abstain from that which hinders it.

Question:     But meat is tamasic [dulls the mind —making it less receptive to the spiritually subtle].

Ma: Exactly, that is why I said what I said. You can think it out for yourself.

Question: When someone kills to eat won’t it affect him adversely?

Ma: Certainly it will.

Question: What about animal sacrifice? It is advocated in the shastras (ancient scriptures).

Ma: This body does not comment on what the shastras enjoin or forbid. But one has to understand what animal sacrifice means: namely the sacrifice of one’s own animal nature.

 

Later:

Kriyananda[2]~ What is the purpose and the fruit of puja and japa?

Ma: For puja particular asanas, mudras and bija-mantras are used according to the particular aspect of the Godhead that one worships. One has to ‘engage’ in [the outer ritual of] puja, so that real puja may come about. Just as one takes sanyasa (outwardly), in order that real inner sanyasa may come. What now is real puja? To give oneself en­tirely to the object of one’s worship. Then the proper asanas and mudras come about spontaneously. The object of the puja is the darshan of Him whom one worships. When one’s dedication becomes complete, then He reveals Himself. To find Him means to find one’s Self and to find one’s Self means to find Him. It is said that the worshipper has to be­come one with the object of his worship in order to be able to perform real puja. So the object and fruit of puja is that the one who worships and He who is worshipped become one. The purpose of japa is the rev­elation of the essence of Him whose name one repeats, then the japa has been fruitful. The object of engaging in the japa of Rama is the revela­tion of what Rama is in reality. The same holds true for every mantra, be it of Krishna, Shiva etc.

Question: May women practice siddhasana [a particular medi­tation posture]?

Ma: When this body played the play of sadhana, siddhasana came about of itself. Therefore it may be performed by women as well as men. When an asana comes about spontaneously as a natural expression of one’s interior state, it will be perfect, that is to say the position of the legs, hands, arms, head, the gaze —everything will be exactly as it should be. Performing an asana by an effort of will can never have the same perfec­tion. Asanas are connected with the rhythm of one’s breath and the breath with one’s state of mind at any particular time. When asanas are done as a yogic practice, that is to say for the purpose of attaining to the revelation of union with the ONE which eternally exists, then only will they bear the desired result. If only done as physical exercise they will bring about health and fitness but that is all —not true union (yoga). Even when one has attained to perfection in a particular asana and its essence has become fully revealed, one should feel: I have attained to this fully, but what of it? It is not the ultimate goal. This attitude is ‘vairagya’ [inspired discrimi­nation]. One then goes on striving for the next stage and so on, further and further. One must keep up this attitude until nothing remains to be reached, then only will the Ultimate be attained. Otherwise one is apt to linger for a long time at a specific stage rather than proceeding rapidly to the final goal. Together with asanas (hatha yoga) one has to practice raja yoga[3], otherwise it is merely physical exercise.

When this body performed asanas they occurred spontaneously, the legs assumed the right positions spontaneously actuated by an in­ner power, which was not the power of another but Atma Shakti.[4] Once, I willfully moved my leg and injured it thereby. The injury has remained, it is still there.

 

Allahabad, 2nd February, 1960

 

The Chinese professor of Allahabad University, Mr. Chow asked: “Once when meditating in a dark room, I had the impres­sion that the room was full of moonlight. But when opening my eyes I found the room dark. What was this?”

Ma:    To see light is a good sign. Unless the path becomes lit up, how can one see anything? Just as in the physical world unless there is light, you cannot distinguish anything. At present there is outer light and inner darkness. When inward light comes, then this outward light seems dim and dull. Just as we see the tree, but can’t see its roots as they are hidden in the earth, so we perceive Prakriti (manifested crea­tion), but we don’t know from where it originates. The root of all that we perceive is hidden within. We see the tree but we don’t see the seed from which it came. However when the tree is fully developed it again yields the same kind of seed. When we look at the seed we see only the seed, yet infinite possibilities of development are contained within it.

The One is contained in the infinite and the infinite in the one. When light is thrown on the inner world, the outer fades into insignificance. However at that stage there is still differentiation between the inner and the outer. But there comes a state where there is no more inner and outer, but all is seen as one whole.

 

Vindhyachal, 19th February, 1960

 

Miss Ray, a young French lady, who had lived in America for four years and is now touring through India on her way home, found out by chance about Mataji from Miss Sydney, who advised her to take a taxi and see Ma at Vindhyachal. We went this morn­ing and stayed for just two hours.

She asked: Is it one’s duty to do what one’s parents want one to do or live one’s own life?

Ma: If it is a life dedicated to the search of Truth then nothing else matters.

Miss Ray: Well, it is not exactly a life of this kind. But I am asking on principle. Is it my duty to conform to my parent’s wishes, or should I live my own life?

Ma: I have already told you —this body speaks only of the Su­preme Quest. There are two kinds of seekers: one wants to dedicate his life to that highest Goal and for him there are no other duties; the other wants to live a religious life but is not fully committed and thus still sees obstacles. If you choose the spiritual path and then have a bad conscience for having left your parents, your thoughts will dwell on them and you won’t be able to meditate. One must make a definite decision one way or the other. Even then there will be difficulties at times, but they can be overcome if the decision has been made once and for all. But if one feels drawn in two directions one cannot proceed.

Question: Will I ever find peace and happiness?

Ma: Peace and happiness are found on the path to God, never in the world. In the world one gets a little happiness which is invariably followed by its shadow —sorrow.

On parting the young lady said: “I shall never forget this day and I shall never forget what you told me!”

Ma: Forget? It is not a question of forgetting. You must meditate. Meditate at least five minutes daily along the line prescribed by your own religion. Not less than five minutes, but if you can give more time, the more the better. Try to give at least a quarter of an hour of every day, no matter what kind of life you may choose —and don‘t forget your friend. This is your friend [pointing to Herself]. Better to think first and then act, than to act thoughtlessly and then regret it afterwards.

 

Kishenpur, 23rd April, 1960

 

Two blind men came. One asked: “How does one get the vi­sion of God? Tell me the easiest way to it?”

Ma: By seeking Him for His own sake.

Question: Which is better, devotion or the path of knowledge?

Ma: Adhere to God’s Name. Repeat His Name day and night and get engrossed in the sweetness of His Name.

The second blind man: Mataji, give me your blessing.

Ma: Pray to God and you will feel His blessing.

A lady: You said: “Seek God for His own sake”. But if one seeks Him with selfishness, will he also attain to Him?

Ma: Of course, if you seek God —with whatever motive— you will get something of Him, and if you pray for anything of this world you will also get it. But these things are not worth asking for. One should not seek God with any motive, but only for His own sake. Seek God because it is your nature to do so, because you cannot remain without Him. Whether and when He reveals Himself to you is His affair. Yours is to call out to Him constantly, not to waste your energy on anything else.

It is not right to compare and reason saying: “Such and such a person has done sadhana for so many years and yet has not got anywhere”. How can you judge what is happening to anyone inwardly? Sometimes it seems that a person who does sadhana seems to have changed for the worse. But how do you know that this tendency has not always been in him and has now come out so that it may be dealt with and purified as a result of his endeavours? To say: “I have done so much sadhana but have not been transformed”, is also the wrong attitude. Yours is only to seek God and call out to Him unceasingly and not look to the result of what you are doing.

The Lady: Sometimes I feel desperate because I don’t seem to be able to progress.

Mataji: You get desperate when you have desires and they remain unfulfilled. But when you aspire to God for His own sake how can you be desperate.

 

 

Kalyanvan, 21st July, 1960

 

Mataji asked me to take the 1-2 a.m. meditation. Last night when I did this for the first time, I seemed to be with Her in Her embrace and remembered Her reply to the question “What does God do?”: “He eats the ego”. I felt that this was actually happening and it was so blissful that I did not get up, but sat till 2.40 a.m. and then lay down in that mood. I felt that I had really nothing to worry about, that in any case Ma was doing everything neces­sary and all I had to do was to surrender. Night meditation is really wonderful, unequalled. Since Ma has come here She talked to me a lot in the Satsang, so I did not feel the need to ask Her for a private.

Mataji talks often to me about anger. The other day I saw that it is intrinsic dissatisfaction about myself that makes me burst out for small reasons. Whatever happens is His doing, it is for Her to look after my welfare. What does it matter to me. Whatever hap­pens does not concern me, so why should I get angry.

One day Ma gave me first a red flower, then a white one and said: “Safed hojao!” [Become white] and put Her hand on my head. Today She wanted to give me a garland, but two stuck together and She said: “1 won’t give you a pair, for you did not get married. You remain alone”. Then She gave me a garland with red and white flowers. I said: “Ma, you are again giving me red”. She said: “This red will take away the red of your anger.”

 

Kishenpur, 22nd July, 1960

 

In the course of Satsang Mataji said: “It is well to remember that whatever one enjoys of worldly happiness, be it good food or whatever else, uses up that merit (punya) that one has accumulated. Therefore it is good to think always of God and to enjoy whatever comes as coming from Him. One should also remember that whatever suffering one has to go through expiates one’s sins and evil deeds”.

 

Kishenpur, 9th October, 1960

 

Question: How can sadhana become uninterrupted since it is necessary to sleep?

Mataji: When one becomes established in ceaseless practice it con­tinues also during sleep.

Question: How can one know this?

Ma: If one meditates before retiring and wakes up in the same kind of state with which one fell asleep one can presume that it has gone on throughout the sleep.

Question: But during sleep one does not know.

Ma: No, not in this case. Although there is a much higher state when one is conscious even in sleep.

Question: Should one undertake a spiritual practice or penance with the expectation that this will atone for a wrong deed or sin?

Mataji: The best thing is to do everything only for God, for the realization of Him alone. That will blot out all sin as well. Some people acquire money by unrighteous means and then give away a large sum for charity or some other good purpose in order to be cleansed, then they start sinning all over again. In this case they will reap the fruit of their evil deed as well as of their good deed. It is like bathing in the Ganges and then smearing mud all over one’s body. Therefore everything should be done with the one motive only to realize God or one’s True Self

 

Kishenpur, 10th October, 1960

 

Question (a French lady): If everything is God’s leela, there seems very little scope left for human freedom. It seems as if we are marionettes and He is pulling the strings. Is there any free­dom for the individual and if so how much? Have we not the free­dom at least to choose at every moment whether to go towards the world or towards the Truth?

Mataji: Everything is God’s leela, but because you do not know this, you ask questions; but even your questions are within His Leela. The world is gatishila [perpetual movement] and the jiva [indi­vidual] is that which is bound. But the bondage is not lasting because it is of the world, which is constant flux. You may lock your room and go away, but the lock cannot last forever, neither can the door. It is a question of perspective. Jiva is also Shiva [God]. In reality you are actually free and therefore it is natural that you desire freedom. When you are going towards God it is difficult to go also towards the world and vice-versa.

Turning towards a young sanyasini [woman renunciate] who was learned in the scriptures, Ma asked:

What then is the freedom of the individual? What do the shastras say?

She said: The individual is like a cow tied to a post. It cannot leave the post, but as far as the rope goes it is free to move as it pleases.

Mataji: Yes, this is a very beautiful analogy. But when the indi­vidual makes use of the whole of his will power in anything that he undertakes, lie gets into touch with  the Mahashakti [supreme power] and then where is the boundary? Just as when a tree is planted it is surrounded by a boundary of bricks or a fence, but when it grows strong it breaks the boundary and grows beyond it. So the cow sometimes digs up the post and runs away with it. In some cases the Guru may destroy the boundary.

 

Kishenpur, 11th October, 1960

 

This morning a French girl, 20 years of age, arrived here from Kabul, where she had been working on a film with Arnaud Desjardins[5]. She was so impressed by a film he showed of Mataji that she decided to stop in India only to see Her. She has ten days here. She left Kabul only yesterday and took the night train from Delhi. After an hour of Ma’s darshan —which was mostly taken up by people bringing presents and doing puja to Ma— followed by a half hour’s talk in Hindi and Bengali of which she could not understand a word, I asked her how she found Ma. She replied: “I expected very much, but I have found much more”. At the ques­tion as to whether she wanted to see anything more of India, she simply said: “No, I want to remain only with Ma”.

 

12th October, 1960

I asked: Mataji, Mrs. Desjardins wants to know what you mean by: “Vipad dilen tini vipad haran koren” (By adversity He de­stroys adversity). For various meanings are possible.

Mataji: Since you say that, first disclose which meanings are in your mind.

I: To be an individual is by itself pain since it means bondage, separation from the One. But immersed in worldly happiness, the individual is not aware of its suffering. So God sends sorrow and adversity so that one may wake up to the fact of one’s innate misery.

Ma: Yes, you see that the happiness of this world is always short-lived and so you begin to search for lasting happiness. What other meaning do you see?

I: It also may mean that He sends misfortune to prevent a greater disaster.

Mataji: Yes, it also happens at times that a great disaster is karmically inevitable, but is blotted out or mitigated by a smaller one. Then also whatever suffering is due to a person due to his karma has to be endured, but then when it is exhausted, it is finished. In this way also suffering is beneficial. Then also if a very great difficulty arises, one is obliged to turn to God, since one feels utterly incapable to cope with it. Although one may doubt whether God exists, yet he will start praying to Him in such a case.

This again reminds me of an incident. Mr. Modi  told me about. Once he was in an aeroplane and some engine trouble arose. The travelers were told that they would all be lost, since the engine could only work for fifteen minutes more.  A panic broke out and people started lamenting and bewailing their ill luck. Modi said: “Why lament? You are fortunate. This is the time to pray to God. If you die with the thought of God you will go straight to Him”. So everyone started praying with great fervour and somehow the aeroplane managed to land. Even though the engine was then repaired, Modi and some others got out feeling intuitively that it was better not to continue. When the plane went up again, it hit an electric wire, caught fire and instantly went up in flames with all those who were still on board.

 

Kishenpur, 13th October, 1960

 

Mataji replied at length to a question. The most important point was: “It is difficult for the householder to always find time to sit down for his prayers. It is also difficult to always cultivate the com­pany of saints or to attend religious meetings. But it is easy and always possible to keep company with God in the shape of His name or the mantra received from the Guru. One cannot always have an image or picture of a deity in front of one’s eyes, but the vigraha of God as akshara [the indestructible Divine sound inherent in the mantra] can be one’s constant companion under all circumstances.”

 

 

Naimisharanya, 26th October, 1960

 

Question: It is said that in 1962 the planetary constellations are very bad and that there will be a great disaster in the world. What is the means to save ourselves from it?

Ma: You hear people say all kinds of things and because you are full of fear you are afraid. But there is also a state in which there is fearlessness. You must take the path that leads to fearlessness. This is a pathless path. You must have recourse to the means which is no means and beyond all means. You must have recourse to that.

Question: But what about the rest of the world?

Ma: First become fearless yourself

Question: What is your opinion about this prophesy?

Ma: This body does not reply to such questions.

 

Naimisharanya, 31st October, 1960

 

Akhandananda Swami gave a talk on anger. He said desire was the father of anger and abhiman [ego] the cause of desire. Un­less one surrenders to the Guru completely and serves him, anger cannot go. Anger is a fire which eats up the rasa [nectar] of one’s sadhana and stops the current of it.

Mr. Modi: I have noticed that those sadhus who sit in places like Gangotri[6] can do without clothes or blankets in such ice-cold places are the very ones who get most angry. How is this to be explained?

Mataji: So long as one is not established in the state where there is no longer consciousness of’I’ and ‘you’, where one knows that the Self is One and all-pervading, how can anger be completely conquered?

Question: Suppose I have a picture of Mataji and someone comes and knocks it down. Should I not get angry?

Mataji: No, you should say: Ma herself has knocked down the pic­ture. Whatever happens is Her doing.

Question: Suppose I have a picture of Mother in my heart and someone insults it. Should I not be angry?

Mataji: No, you should feel that Mother Herself has spoken. She is all-pervading. She has spoken in this way to test my endurance, to give me a chance not to get angry even when there seems to be a reason for it.

Someone quoted a sloka from the Ramayana in which it says that when someone abuses your Guru, you should not listen and avoid that person.

Mataji: What you said is very beautiful. At a certain stage this is the right thing to be done.

Question: When Sita[7] entered the earth after having been sub­jected to very humiliating tests, was her motive not anger?

Mataji: No, there was no anger. A condition had arisen under which she simply could not remain on the earth. It was imperative for her to leave.

Question: What exactly did Sita feel?

Mataji: You are not playing the instrument. The reply does not come. But you yourself are Sita, you are Rama.

Jogesh Brahmachari: No, I am not Rama nor Sita.

Mataji: No, ‘I’ is not Rama. Where the ‘I’ is, there cannot be Rama. I did not say ‘I’ am Rama. There is only Rama, nothing but Rama. All is Rama.

 

 

Om Ma, Kishenpur, 24th November, 1960

 

Mataji sent me here with some young brahmacharinis [nuns]. A letter came from Her with instructions for us, as follows: “At every single moment try to be aware of Him, for have you not chosen this path to dedicate your lives to Him alone! Therefore when speaking, speak only of Him; when thinking, think of Him; and when listening, listen to His words. Further, each one of you must try to keep a diary, so as to check your mind from turning outwards. This may also make you watchful and be helpful to you in your endeavour. In order to make ones’ lives beautiful and to fill the new life with a new current, those who are pilgrims on this path must develop great inner strength, en­ergy, mobility and swiftness. It will not do to sit and ride in a rickety, jolting cart. At all times the mind must be intensely vigorous, ener­getic and alert —then only can one forge ahead with great speed. Re­member that everyone has to mould his or her own life. Accept cheer­fully whatever he may bestow on you or take away from you”.

These days I sit for an hour and a half at a stretch without discomfort, in spite of my sore right knee. Also as soon as I close my eyes, warmth flows through the whole body. Ma said when here in October: “Now you are able to do a bit of dhyan. I can see it from your face”.

Today I started at last on the book. I am putting the material in order and making the index. Even if it is not at all exhaustive, it will be better than nothing. At night it is so quiet. I wish I did not have to sleep. In the day there are disturbances. I got three mari­golds from Amy’s garden for Ma.

Keeping a diary is perhaps like keeping accounts —one knows how much one spends and checks when it becomes too much. Here also one can check when keeping count of what one does daily.

 

27th November, 1960

 

I feel irritated again. It seems to be an essential knot of my ego. I have a desire to attend some of J.K.’s talks. Perhaps it may help me to become aware of the root cause of this. I still fail to remember that all are manifestations of the One. Today woke early, but had stomach pain in the afternoon and had to lie down with a hot water bag and fell asleep for half an hour. Work with the book proceeding satisfactorily. Immensely enjoyable and enlightening.

 

Kishenpur, 29th November, 1960

 

Early morning before kirtan, meditation is good, time flies.

 

30th November, 1960

 

Woke before 3 am. and got up, so had a quiet meditation for one hour, but then got tired and lay down again until kirtan time, 5.30 am.

I do daily asanas for half an hour early morning. It helps to make the body an instrument.

 

1st December, 1960

 

This morning I was tired and got up only at 4.45 am., but meditation was not disturbed. I sat for over one and a half hours in the same posture. My knee is better. I walked down to the School for the Blind. I enjoyed the walk, hut on returning my heart seems tired. Perhaps I should avoid physical exertion. After all it is not worth it to waste my energy in this way at my age. Better to keep quiet and preserve energy for the inner search.  I am enjoying the kirtan twice daily and the Gita Path (Bhagavad Gita recitation).

 

5th December, 1960

 

Letter from Malati to say that they may go to Varanasi to hear J.K. The letter carries J.K.’s atmosphere and makes me feel pecu­liar about the life I am leading.

 

7th December, 1960

 

I have been reading Lama Govinda’s book, Foundations of Ti­betan Mysticism, which I like quite a lot. At last there was a letter from Miss Sydney, but her handwriting has changed and she seems absent minded. She is still in Almora, was ill, poor old thing.

 

Sunday, 10th December, 1960

 

What a life this is, and I go on quite complacently while death is always lurking around the corner; I am satisfied with the shad­ows. Such dissatisfaction must be J.K.’s influence. Whenever he is in India I feel it.

 

Kishenpur, 13th January, 1961

 

It is obviously the complete concentration on and surrender to God, the “letting go”, that precipitates the transformation.

I read recently The Way of the Pilgrim which I loved and want to read once more. It shows how when one is really intense it takes only a very short time to go very far and also live without any means or comforts in complete bliss. It makes me feel that I am not intense enough.

I have been planning to go to Delhi to see Lisl, and now I hear Mataji Herself will be there. That is also wonderful because I don’t really care whether I see anyone or anything else in the world. Mataji will be there and I can perhaps take Lisl to Her. So there is some sense in my going. Also I may see J.K. I had a wish some­time ago to meet him this year.

 

20th January, 1961

 

Heard J.K. talk. It was nothing special[8]. Lisl saw Ma on Janu­ary 21st and said when She came in, it was as if Bliss itself was entering the hall.

 

New Delhi, 23rd January, 1961

 

Today a young American woman, Markell Brooks, asked questions. She has been in India for only twelve days.

Question: What is the cause for the sense of unreality of eve­rything I perceive, even though I know it is good and beautiful, as for instance a sunset?

Ma: This feeling comes from within you. Whatever is perceived is temporary, ever changing and therefore unreal. Your Atma which is eternal and real gives you this sense of unreality, of the impermanent. It is a good sign that it should come. Turn within arid seek the Atma. Life in the world and all one perceives with the senses is transitory. Only by meditation and coming to know oneself can one reach the One­ness that is the only Reality.

Question: Since the will of the individual is illusory and one does not know God’s will, how can one lead a purposeful life in this world.

Ma: By contemplating the Self one will find out. It is man’s prin­cipal duty to aspire to Self-realization.

Question: What about self-expression in art?

Ma: This also belongs to that which is fleeting. You paint a picture, but it can’t last. The most beautiful song fades away in a moment.

Question: Presuming that the striving goes on no matter what, how can one know how to live —in relation both to human beings and one’s own creative energies?

Ma: A man who is after worldly things and is occupied with the business of this world gets satisfaction out of what he does, for other­wise why should he do it? He feels he is doing well, he gets praise and fame, money and position and  his mind is always occupied with his affairs. If someone is opposed to him and puts obstacles in his way lie gets angry and hostile.

A person who strives after Self-realization will turn to Mahatmas [great souls] for advice, guidance and company. He will start reading books written by such men. He will admire them and wish to become like them and so, since he is searching for Truth, he will come to be truthful in behaviour and speech. The Self is one, so remember the Oneness of all.  Although a dog may bite you, you will not bite back. The man who strives after worldly goods and satisfaction is working for death, because everything in the world is constantly dying and some­thing else is born. The child dies to the young girl and the girl to the woman etc. But the man who is after Self-realization is working for immortality. When living and working in the world one’s creative power is exhausted in the pursuit of sense objects so one may come to feel weak, tired or ill. But by striving after Self-realization one’s creative power is preserved and strengthened.

While the person who lives in the world takes pleasure in parties, meeting people etc etc, the one who is out for Self-realization will take pleasure in meditation, singing the praises of God, reading books of wisdom, listening to discourses by great souls and mixing with those who are pilgrims on the path.

Now about behaviour: The devotee will come to feel that he is the servant of the Lord and therefore become humble, gentle and sweet. Everyone, whatever his line of approach, should become gentle, kind and loving, for the Self is one. The active person will do service —not to others but with the thought that everyone is a manifestation of God and that whomever he may serve, he serves God in that shape. This alone is real service; this kind of service purifies the mind and is there­fore also a service to the Self The one who is striving for illumination will reason that all are expressions of the One and so he also will be kind and loving to all. Just as when the dry leaves fall off a tree, the new leaves come of their own accord, so one’s behaviour and relationship will automatically change with one’s attitude to life.

According to the status of an aspirant he will have to observe cer­tain injunctions. So you [referring to me] with your yellow clothes[9] should live up to what such dress demands.

 

New Delhi, 21st January 1961

 

A French couple from the U.N.O. had a private with Ma. The lady asked: How does the love of God come?

Ma: Don’t you make friends with utter strangers and come to love them? To love God who is your own Self is natural. If you feel attracted to a particular form of God, like Christ or Krishna, contemplate  Him in this form, repeat His Name constantly and think of Him, occupy your mind continually with the thought of Him.

Question: If one does not feel attracted to any particular in­carnation of God?

Ma: Then sit quite still and dive into yourself trying to find out who you are. To find yourself means to find God and to find God means to find your Self

 

Beginning of January, 1961

 

Ma’s letter to one of the ashramites:

“By constant practice one finally achieves the goal. Everyone in the ashram should say to themselves: ‘All right, as our friend has shown us the way, we shall try to follow her advice to the minutest detail’. At what moment His touch will be felt lies with Him —our duty is to continue to invoke Him at all times. Enough time has already been spent in going here and there aimlessly, leaving the Path in order to enjoy the sights of the world and to have fun in various ways in the manner of the world. Now as much time as possible should be dedi­cated to the attempt of finding one’s Self. Vain and useless talk is of no benefit and prevents one from advancing towards Him; it is an obstacle to one’s efforts. Ages and ages have been wasted in this way. Now my friend, return to your own house. By lingering on the way you only prolong the agony of having to endure the troubles and difficulties that are met with on the pilgrimage. Ever remember that one who tries to advance towards Him and practices His name, His presence, progresses whatever his condition may be. To say: ‘I am not feeling His response’ and therefore to seek pleasure in mundane things, can never be benefi­cial. Ever bear this in mind”.

 

New Delhi, 23rd January, 1961

 

Question: Is it necessary to join an ashram in order to find God or can one do it also at home?

Mataji:  God is everywhere and can be found everywhere. The home is also an ashram, namely the grihastha ashram[10]. People join an ashram or sit alone on the banks of the Ganges only to realize that God is eve­rywhere, that there are no boundaries except in the mind. Everyone chooses the life that is most helpful to him in his search.

Miss Brooks: Is freedom an illusion?

Ma: No, man is free.

Question: But man is an individual, an ego, and the ego is an illusion, so how can he be free?

Ma: Yes, the outer man who is identified with the ego is not free, but actually man is free, the ‘atimanesh’ [true man] is free.

 

Hardwar, 5th February, 1961

 

Today a party of Swiss people came. One of them can heal people by laying on hands and also from a distance by visualizing them. She said a clergyman taught her how to do this. She was afraid, however, that she was not doing it correctly as she felt very exhausted after the healing and also experienced the illnesses in herself of whomever she was curing. For instance, she was blind for ten minutes while trying to cure a blind man, although in this case she could not affect a cure. Swami Narayanananda at Rishikesh asked her to give up this healing as it would arrest her spiritual progress. She wanted to know what Mataji had to say about this. She is the mother of three children and healing is a means of livelihood for her.

Mataji: It is true that this type of healing arrests one’s going be­yond the level from which the healing is affected. If one takes to the spiritual life completely, it is an obstacle. But from the point of view of the householder, who in any case has to do business or earn money in some way to support his family, you may take money for some cures and do others free as a service. People will be benefited, although some may not he cured as it does not lie in their fate [karma]. In any case some good will be done. Householders who have to provide for their children etc inevitably cannot live completely without some compro­mise. But for those who dedicate themselves entirely to the spiritual, for them compromise does not exist; they have to be truthful at all costs, for such persons such an activity would represent an obstacle.

Question: We are trying to found an international spiritual centre in Europe where Yoga of all kinds will be taught, since the spiritual hunger in Europe is very acute and ever increasing. Should we go ahead with it?

Ma: Who is to instruct in Yoga?

Questioner: We are getting people from all over the world to come and do it.

Mataji: If you can secure really competent teachers, then it is no doubt a good thing to found such a centre. But all depends on the ca­pacity and inner qualification of the instructors.

 

Hardwar, 5th February, 1961

 

Stayed with Kitty in Delhi a day and then left by taxi with Markell Brooks for here. I enjoyed staying with Kitty. We under­stand each other quite well. I found the room in which J.K. stayed very helpful for meditation.

 

Hardwar, 17th March, 1961

 

In the evening someone asked about the three naistik brahmn­acharis under Ma’s training. They wear either yellow or gerua and follow a very strict routine. They must get up early, bathe in the Ganges, do sandhya, japa, havan[11], then cook their own food on the sacred fire, clean their puja vessels and then do another kriya —all before eating by which time it is at least 1 p.m. or more. In the evening they do several hours of meditation and take only milk and fruit. They are allowed cooked food only once a day. They must observe strict rules of conduct —praise, blame and even abuse should be equal to them. They have to see everyone as Brahman. All this is to prepare oneself for Self-realization. They have to stay in a place favourable to their sadhana. Hardwar is very good for this because of the Ganges and the walks in the open countryside.

In the evening Mother called an American visitor to sit by Her and said She would give darshan daily at 11.30 a.m. and 6.30 p.m.

 

Hardwar, 1st April, 1961

 

So many foreigners come nowadays. When Mataji gives darshan in Her room there are sometimes more Europeans than Indians[12]. Today at about midday the Rani of Gwalior and her daughter were in Ma’s room. She called me, Sukriya and an Italian lady. Later two Europeans from Rishikesh also joined. So there were five Eu­ropeans, each of a different country.

Christa asked Her: How should one meditate? Is it better to concentrate on an object such as a flower or should the mind be made blank?

Ma:  There are two basic ways: one is to concentrate on a deity like Shiva, Rama, Kali etc. This is very helpful for those who feel at­tracted to a particular form of God. The other way is to make the mind empty, observing thoughts as they arise and subside, not identifying with them but standing back as a witness until all thought ceases. But to keep the mind empty is very difficult for most aspirants. One can also concentrate on the inner light, the light by which one sees the outer things. Even a blind man perceives light within. Observing the movement of one’s breath is another very effective way to still the mind.

Mataji was then called outside. The Rani of Gwalior told us that she had been wanting to ask the very same question about meditation, but felt shy to do so and thought, ‘perhaps Mataji will say something of her own accord’ and so she received her reply through someone else’s question. She said that this happened very often with Mataji.

 

Kankhal, 4th April, 1961

 

Question: Suppose a man decides to stay in a holy place, like Vrindaban, Kashi etc and to devote the rest of his life to spiritual practices and satsang for the purpose of attaining liberation, but in spite of doing all this he finds that he has not really been trans­formed. If he dies in this condition, will he be liberated?

Mataji: That he has not been able to progress as he had hoped is due to his sankalpa [intention] not being completely pure. This is why both positive and negative aspects remain side by side within him. The influence of the holy place and the holy company will no doubt have their effect, but along with this he is reaping the fruits of his previous bad karma as well. The fruits of one’s actions have to be experienced to the minutest detail.

In any case he should not give up but continue to exert himself.  It is said that in the Kaliyuga man is so weak that his mental sins are for­given him —he has only to bear the consequences of his actions, not his thoughts; otherwise there would be no chance at all of being liberated.

Question: It is said that if a man dies in Kashi or certain other holy places, he will be liberated. Is that so?

Mataji: If he dies within the sacred confines of Kashi [Benares] as defined in the scriptures, then it is so.

 

Kankhal, 10th April, 1961

 

Yesterday Mr. Modi asked what was the sense of going to the doctor and having treatment, if everything was in any case or­dained beforehand by Providence.

Mataji: The fact that you consult the doctor and undergo treat­ment is also part of fate. Unless it is your karma to be cured, the doctor is helpless. But when it is within your karma to get well, the right treatment is given and you recover.

Mr. Modi: Suppose one has intense faith in God and leaves everything to Him and does not consult any doctor, can one get well even so?

Mataji:  If one is in that state where one’s faith is real, then it will be so powerful that God will effect the cure. But if one’s faith is only superficial it will not work.

The other way is not to pray to God for anything and to leave everything to Him, then whether one gets well or not is exactly the same.

 

Poona, 3rd July, 1961

 

To a question as to why God allows suffering in the world

Ma replied: Whatever happens in the world is His Lila, His pleasure.

Question: Pleasure at all this misery? Where then is His love?

Mataji: Who loves and who suffers? He alone plays His Play; who is there save Him? The individual suffers because he perceives duality. Duniya [the world] means du-niya [based on duality, the funda­mental root of sorrow]. Find only the One everywhere and there will be an end to pain.

 

Poona, 5th July, 1961

 

It has been raining hard for days, almost non-stop. This morn­ing Ma was speaking about the weather and how much trouble everyone had to take to come to Her. Then She said: “It is raining and raining. If your love of God would rain like this, flowing uninter­ruptedly, how beautiful it would be! It is said that the rainy season is conducive to love and devotion for God. Let your devotion for Him stream continuously like this rain”.

Question: Why does God allow so much suffering in the world? Ask everyone assembled here, none is happy and all want to be.

Mataji: If you desire the things of this world you will be unhappy, and if you advance towards God you will be happy. This is how He teaches you to come to Him. If you had no troubles, you would not think of Him. But you desire all kinds of things and so you are unhappy.

There is a story about a donkey that is an apt illustration of just how things are in this world. A dhobi [laundryman] kept a few don­keys to carry the clothes he collected for washing. Since he was poor, his house was too small to hold the donkeys and he left them outside during the night. He also could not afford enough rope to tie them all up. The donkeys would often run away and the dhobi had to spend hours trying to find them. So he thought of a clever solution. He sim­ply touched a short piece of rope to their legs, and they, thinking they had been tied, remained standing in the same place all night. Exactly the same happens in the world. Maya touches you and you imagine you are bound. You think: how can I do without my children, my hus­band, my wife my parents, etc, and so you remain where you are and do not advance towards Him.

 

Poona, 10th July, 1961

 

The famous singer Hirabai Barodkar came and sang beauti­fully. Ma said to her: “By singing Hari  kirtan one can also get His touch. Through the melody and the rhythm He reveals Himself. Ram Prasad[13] realized the Great Mother only by being engrossed in sing­ing Her praises.

 

Vrindaban, 25th January, 1962

 

Yesterday Mataji asked us to take turns doing japa for twenty-four hours without a break, each of us choosing a particular time during the day. She asked a young German woman also to take one hour. The lady then asked Ma whether she could do japa of Christ. Mataji said: “Certainly, there is only One”.

Since yesterday a German family has been singing during the kirtan time. Yesterday they sang some German canons, today from a book of Church music four hundred years old, beautifully in three voices. Mother liked it immensely. She then told us how once when She was a child, two European missionaries came to Her village. They pitched a tent and went about singing Christian hymns very beautifully. Mataji liked it so much that tears would roll down Her cheeks. She was fascinated by their religious spirit and followed them wherever they went. She was a child and did not know the difference between Hinduism and Christianity, She only felt the religious fervour. She stayed with them until night­fall and when they retired to their tent She stood outside. The tent was closed and it was quite still, but She felt that they were pray­ing and meditating. When it was pitch dark Mataji ran home. Nobody scolded her or said a word about her being late. Some­how they did not notice it. The missionaries were selling Chris­tian hymn books in Bengali for one paisa each. Mataji begged Her mother to buy her one, which she did.

Question: What is the difference, if any, between prayer and meditation?

Mataji:  When you pray you ask for your wish to be fulfilled, be it the wish to be one with God or to realize Him or serve Him etc. Whereas dhyan, or meditation, means to be immersed in the contemplation of Him.

Question: How is this possible?

Mataji:  It comes spontaneously. First you think of Him and then remember Him and you become absorbed in Him effortlessly. Just as when you sit here the thought of your home and your children comes to you automatically and you ponder over them. Likewise, the contempla­tion of the Divine beloved happens of its own accord.

 

Vrindaban, 26th January, 1962

 

A German lady asked: I read in a book on Christian medita­tion that it is good for a beginner to concentrate on an object or symbol, such as the cross, the chalice or the light of a candle, since it is difficult to concentrate on the Supreme?

Ma: Is that all the book said?  Why not concentrate on Christ?

Questioner: I have not the courage to do so. He is too holy and sublime. I could only do it wrongly.

Ma: Everything that you perceive, you perceive because of light. And what anyone perceives, be he man or animal is perceived by that same light. This outer light originates from an inner light, even a blind man has an inner light. The light of the Self is the same in all. Whether you worship Christ, Krishna, Rama or Kali, you actually worship the one Light which is also in you, which pervades all things. Everything originates from Light, is essentially Light.

An Indian lady: You always say we should constantly think of God, be immersed in Him; but in that mood the house-work gets neglected, a child comes and wants something, one attends to it hurriedly or guests arrive and they are not looked after prop­erly. So what is one to do

Mataji: If you are immersed in God, why care what happens in the world? Let happen what may, you are absorbed in God.

Questioner: But my people find fault with me. They say I ne­glect my duties. I am half here and half there and so neither gets done well.

Mataji: No, you are not ‘half’ there, very much less than half and with that little bit of other-worldliness you can do your work very well, even better than you could without it. Keep some hours reserved for your meditation and for the rest do your work as a service to God. By thinking of God all the time and regarding everyone as one of God’s forms, your work will be done very well and everyone will be satisfied. When a man is out to accumulate wealth, he hides the little he has and even when he has accumulated something, he keeps it concealed. Keep your spiritual wealth in your heart and do the service of your family. There is no need to exhibit the little you have gained. But when you become really immersed in Him so that it is impossible to attend to your work, then nobody will blame you. People will feel the influence of the Divine in you and on the contrary be eager to serve you. If guests remain unattended, they will not mind it, they will be satisfied to have your company. But that is quite a different thing, then the world will not exist for you.

 

Vrindaban, 28th January, 1962

 

In reply to a question of Mr. Modi, Ma pointed out the impor­tance of what one thinks of at the moment of death. She said: “Just as a leech does not leave one place until it hooks on to something else, so the soul upon leaving the body at once goes according to the state of mind a man is in. But at the moment of death one is unable to control one’s thoughts, therefore the mind will dwell where it is accustomed to going and so one has to practice while one is well and strong, in order that the thought of God may come automatically when one is weak and ill.” She told a story to illustrate this.

“An old woman who had sold oil all her life was about to die. All her relatives had assembled round her and were urging her to repeat the name of Rama or Krishna. But she was hardly conscious anymore and could not hear what they shouted to her. Being used to beggars coming to her to beg for oil, she replied every time: ‘Not one drop will I give, not one drop!’ Saying thus she passed away.

At the moment of death one’s thoughts are weighed as it were. One cannot think of anything  but that which has been strongest in one’s mind throughout one’s life. For this reason the practice of the Presence of God is so important, while one has yet control over one’s mind.”

         Later Mataji said: “The quality of your mind is greatly influenced by the kind of food you eat.”

 

Hardwar, 8th February, 1962

 

Had a dream of Mother in which She appeared as a man and urged me to live in an isolated retreat, far removed from my too numerous friends here in Dehradun. In the dream I was not too keen to do this. I remember that I once dreamt of J.K. looking like a woman after I changed over to Mataji, many years ago.

 

12th February, 1962

 

Much happens daily in terms of consciousness. In the afternoon went to visit Sukriya. She told me how she reacted recently when someone was prowling around the house late at night. She prayed to God to bless him since he was also God’s child. He left within three minutes. To concentrate on the divine in everyone helps to solve the problem, where as reacting only increases the negativity. One should feel that whatever comes is sent by God.

In the evening I could do good work on the new book. How rich life is —so much happens in a single day, although outwardly there is nothing special[14].

 

Hardwar, 6th March, 1962

 

A couple came who had lost their son. The man asked what was the sense of a child dying before it had lived out its life. Mataji replied that it was all the working of karma.

“It was your karma to serve the child for sometime and his karma to accept your service. When it was over, God took him away. It is all God’s play. Like some flowers fade and do not bear fruit, so the child was given to you by God for a time. This is the way of the world. There is bound to be bereavement and loss.”

Question: From where is one to take to power to bear all these troubles and tribulations?

Mataji: Remember that the Atma of the child and your Atma are one. The Atma is neither born nor dies, it eternally is. The body, like a worn garment falls away. Try not to be attached to the body and do not cry for it. Cry for God alone. Remember God, repeat His Name and contemplate Him. Read Scriptures such as the Gita, the Bhagavata and the Ramayana regularly and you will find comfort. Your grief will be­come much lighter. Make your life as a householder a dedicated life, as in an ashram. Blows come to remind you to turn your mind to that which alone is real.

 

Kishenpur, 17th June, 1962

 

Yesterday one of the ashram girls asked me to ask Ma the meaning of Bhagavat chinta [the thought of God]. How can one think of Him if one does not know who he is?

Ma: Sometimes you may want to buy something that you have not actually seen but only heard about and of which you have some idea, You think of it and then go to the bazaar and look for it until you finally find it. Here you are on the level of belief and acceptance of what you have been told. In fact there is nothing but God. But as you accept the authority of the Guru therefore meditate on Him according to the Guru’s instructions, even though you do not know who or what He really is. Carry out the Guru’s orders. The mantra is the seed. When you have the seed, you potentially have the whole tree. You have only to bury the seed in the earth and tend it. The tree will grow of itself. When you have found a Guru and received His instructions, you have potentially found everything; just as the seed is potentially the tree.

Mataji also spoke of people who want to commit suicide:

“When a man cannot get the woman he loves or vice versa, he does not want to live any longer. This is called identification with the body. When the body cannot get the enjoyment it is looking forward to, one wants to give it up. Then also when someone goes in search of God and cannot find Him after a long time, he may also want to commit suicide. This is also due to identification with the body. If someone really wants to find God, he considers the body to be God’s temple and tries to keep it fit, so that he can do sadhana. Therefore it is necessary to eat moderately and sleep moderately, not more than is essential to keep the body well and fit.”

 

19th June, 1962

 

This morning during darshan I asked Mother the following questions:

Myself: How does sadhana  become tivra [intense]?

Ma: By one-pointedness [eklaksh]. Tivra means to direct the tir [arrow] towards the goal. To aim with concentration at the goal only.

A little later Ma said: Although it is good to sing kirtan, recite scriptures, do puja etc, if one does it and enjoys the prestige and praise one gets, then it is an obstacle to sadhana. Suppose someone says: “How beautifully you sang! Let me copy the song” and then takes the ad­dress. A correspondence ensues, he sends some money etc. This is not sadhana.

An ashramite: Should we then stop singing kirtan?

Ma: No, sing as much as you can, but only for God, only to get absorbed in Him. Be oblivious of whether someone praises you or not.

Your way of doing sadhana is like traveling by bullock cart. At times the driver falls asleep and then the bullock takes the wrong road and one has to retrace one’s steps. Therefore one has to be watchful and alert all the time.

 

June 1962

 

Question: While living in the Guru’s Ashram, what is better, service of the Guru or sadhana?

Mataji: Whatever the Guru tells you is best. Obey the Guru implicitly. Whatever He may tell you to do, even if it be disagreeable, take it that it is for your purification.

Question: But the Guru does not say anything.

Ma: Then he is not a Guru.

To do the Guru’s personal service one must have the capacity for it. It is not for everyone. It is not ‘seva’ if one feels possessive of the Guru and jealous of others who also want to serve him. One must re­member that all service, to whomever, is service to God. So many peo­ple come to the Ashram and there is no end to the opportunities of serving them in such a holy environment.

If you are able to sit in meditation continuously, nobody will ex­pect service from you. But if you just go about aimlessly part of the time, then you should do service of some sort.

Question: What is mantra chaitanya?

Ma: The mantra that has become alive —when that which the mantra represents becomes revealed. The seed is laid by the Guru; but when the earth is not properly prepared the tree won’t grow. An ordi­nary seed dies if it is not tended, whereas the seed that the Guru sows is immortal. But the earth has to be dug up and made soft, then the stones have to be removed and it has to he ploughed etc. When the seed is not watered, it cannot develop. The regular practice according to the Gu­ru’s instruction provides the nourishment.

 

29th June, 1962

 

Question: What is chitta shuddhi [pure thought]?

Ma: When the mind becomes empty and, like a clean mirror, re­flects the Self

 

30th June, 1962

 

Question: Is the death hour fixed beforehand?

Ma: In the realm in which laws of nature function, it is so and cannot be averted. But by the Will, or by the Grace, of One who has gone beyond these laws it may be altered. Normally, however, fate will have its way.

Once upon a time there was a learned Brahmin. One night, while he and his family were asleep, a poisonous snake entered the house and bit his wife, son and daughter. Within a few moments all of them were dead. The Brahmin naturally felt sorely grieved and dejected. What to do now? He watched the snake crawl away and leave the house. In his despair he ran behind the reptile. After following it for some distance he saw the snake change into two fighting bulls. They began to fight jealously until they had killed each other. Then a beautiful young girl emerged on the spot. Two men came and started quarrelling over her; a fight ensued and they stabbed each other to death while the young beauty went on her way.

Deeply pained and puzzled the Brahmin kept close to her heels. Finally, she turned around and said: “Why do you follow me? Leave me alone.!” “Not until you explain to me who you are. First you were a snake and your poisonous fangs blotted out my whole family. Then you turned into two fighting bulls that perished, and now, taking on the shape of a charming girl, you have caused the death of two men. Tell me who you are.”

The young woman tried to escape, but the Brahmin would not let her go. “First disclose your identity, then you may go where you please.” At long last she replied: “I am destiny. I do not kill anyone. But man, by the results of his own actions, causes his own death in some manner or other.”

“If this is so”, said the Brahmin, “tell me how I shall die?” “By drowning”, she replied. With these words the woman disappeared. Al­though the Brahmin made strenuous efforts to avoid his fate, living in the mountains and taking great pains to avoid bodies of water, he ul­timately succumbed as was his unalterable destiny.

Question: If someone dies pronouncing God’s Name, will he escape being reborn again?

Ma: It depends on the state he has reached. If he is in the right state of mind, it may of course happen that all his remaining karma is burnt up in a moment. Or this may also happen by the Grace of the Guru.

Question: Is it possible to obliterate desire by the Grace of the Guru?

Ma: It is. The Grace of the Guru always pours down on you, but you must have mercy upon yourself so that you may realize this. If your cup is turned upside down, how can it catch anything?

 

 

1st July 1962

Question: What is the right way of doing pranam?

Ma: When doing pranam to a deity or a living saint, first look in­tently at the whole figure, beginning with the feet, then moving to the head while inhaling slowly. Then, as you inhale, take in the power of the one to whom you are making the pranam and as you bring your head down to touch his feet, exhale, thinking that whatever is in you —good or bad— you offer to him; pour yourself out completely. When your head touches the feet, the divine power is transmitted through them into your head, which is the root of a human being. When the saint’s hand is put on your head as you touch his feet, the electricity goes into you through his fingers.

Question: I read in the paper about someone who was found dead. He left a letter to say that the woman he loved had died a few days ago and he could not bear life without her, so he had gone to join her. Can one by committing suicide really be united with a person who is dead?

Ma:  Never. One who commits suicide enters such a deep darkness out of which it is very difficult to be liberated. One may remain in it for ages, unless someone who has power has compassion and frees one from it. Suicide is a most heinous sin. In that condition one cannot meet anyone [in the after life]. The human body is born in order to enjoy and suffer the fruit of one’s deeds of former birth. To try to escape from this by suicide is most foolish and only prolongs the agony indefinitely. No one who is in his senses can take his life; at the moment of doing such a thing the person is out of his mind. Suicide does not solve anything, on the contrary.

 

Kishenpur, 2nd July, 1962

 

Question: It is said that if one thinks a certain thing is so, then it is so. For example, if I think prasad brings blessing, then this will be so; but not if I do not believe in this. What then is imagination and what truth?

Ma: Imagination  is one of the activities of the mind, but prasad always carries blessing whether you believe in it or not.

Questioner (an old woman): Why is it that I never think that I am going to die? I think of other people’s death but not of my own.

Ma: Because you are afraid of death, you avoid thinking of it. But also, because in reality you are immortal, you know intuitively that you will not die. It is only the body that dies.

 

10th July, 1963

 

Question: Ma, we do not find peace, the mind is restless and disturbed.

Ma: Become immersed in the repetition of God’s name. Do not even consider whether you are at peace or not.  All the time cling to the Name.

 

Kalyanvan, 12th July, 1963

 

Yesterday Ma sat on the platform under the jackfruit tree and talked about the adhikara [qualities] that are necessary to be able to discern correctly the biddings of the inner Guru. She said there were clear signs: “A person who can be guided by the inner Guru should be free from krodha [anger], moha [self delusion], lobha [greed], ahamkara [selfishness], abhimana [ego] and the rest. He feels friendly towards all and not disturbed by anyone. But what most people call the inner Guru is nothing but the mind masquerading as such.

You are out to find the Atma which is One, so until you have found it look upon all who come to you as expressions of that One and be friendly with all. When someone slaps you on one cheek, give him the other cheek also.

 

Kishenpur, 23rd July, 1963

 

On the 16th evening Ma’s right foot got entangled in a towel and She fell and fractured the third toe of Her right foot. Today for the first time She came out of Her room and stood for quite a long time on the verandah to give darshan. Just before this a French priest from Poitiers had a private with Her.

Question: Do you know about Christianity and what do you think of it?

Ma: If Christianity claims a special place for itself and puts itself apart, it destroys the divine unity amid universality of the all-pervad­ing Godhead. We recognize Jesus Christ but within the unity of reli­gions. He Himself is above this separation.

Question: As a Christian my first duty is to search after God and also to love my neighbour as myself. There is so much poverty in India[15]. It is my duty to serve the poor. What does Ma say to that?

Ma: Exactly the same is also said by Hindus. To serve God in every human being is certainly a path to purification of the mind [chitta shuddhi].

Question: You say ‘a way’ but for us it is the only way. Do other ways [to God] exist?

Ma: There are innumerable paths.

Question: Is technical progress an aid to the spiritual search or rather a hindrance?

Ma: In themselves technological inventions are neither good nor bad. Now one flies by aeroplane, in olden times also flying existed by pushplaka ratha[16]. This is the constant flux of the world. Anything that helps in one’s spiritual search is to be adopted and whatever hin­ders to be eschewed.

Question: Take for instance the invention of printing. Through books one may be helped in one’s search.

Ma: If someone really wants God and nothing but God, he has all the books he needs within himself . He needs no printed books. But there is no harm in making use of modern inventions provided they are help­ful in the quest after God.

Priest: What does Ma consider the most essential thing in life?

Ma: To try and find out ‘Who am I’. To try to know that which has brought into existence one’s body and mind. This also may become the search after God. But the first thing is to conceive the desire to know oneself. Finding one’s Self one has found God and finding God one has found one’s Self—the one Atma.

Question: Are there many people who succeed in this quest?

Ma: Quite a number attain to some siddhi [a degree of attain­ment] or mukti [liberation], but only one in ten millions arrives at complete Realization. It is very, very rare.

Question: Do you think you have reached the ultimate state?

Ma: (Laughs) Whatever you believe me to be, that I am.

Question: From what moment did you have that Realization?

Ma: When was I not?

 

 

 

 

 


[1] Raimundo Panikkar —a noted Catholic philosopher and Indologist, son of an Indian father and a Spanish mother. The main part of this interview, pri­marily Mr. Fennel’s questions, has been used for the Prologue.

 

[2] An American disciple of Paramahansa Yogananda who later founded a number of popular Yoga communities in the U.S. and Europe.

[3] Meditation and specific mental disciplines.

 

[4]  The Divine power of the Atman —the Supreme Self.

 

[5] French Film maker, author and spiritual teacher who along with his wife spent considerable time with Anandamayee.

[6] Site of an ancient temple, high up in the Himalayas near the source of the Ganges.

 

[7] The consort of the god-king Rama

[8] This is her final recorded encounter with Krishnamurti.

 

[9] Mother had recently told her to wear only yellow saris as this colour signified hr permanent commitment to the spiritual life.

[10] The second of the four classical stages of Hindu life.

[11] Ritual of making offerings of rice grains and ghee to a sacrificial fire constructed in a particular manner and accompanied with mantra recitation.

 

[12] Usually there were never more than a handful of Westerners around  Anandamayi Ma, nor was their presence particularly encouraged by the rather orthodox ashram community. Nevertheless, as many as 30 or 40 might occasionally come to attend a specific ashram function – especially during the last ten years of Anandamayi Ma’s life.

[13] Ram Prasad Sen, 18th century Bengali mystic and composer of songs to the Divine mother.

[14] This is Atmananda’s last personal observation and is a fitting commentary on what her life had become and was to remain.

[15] There is such tremendous wealth in India —both spiritual and cultural—; but it is typical of the fundamentally materialistic humanism so prized in the West to focus almost exclusively on the economic problems, as a sort of mod­ern substitute for a more authentic spirituality.

 

[16] A kind of flying machine spoken of in the ancient Hindu epics.